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Friday, 25 September 2015

Citicoline and THC/CBD oils

Hey all,

I know many of you follow Cheryl Broyle's plan for taking THC/CBD concentrates.  On her website, she discusses how she takes Citicoline prior to taking the oils, as it helps alleviate the "stoned" feeling.  She made a post on facebook yesterday warning about taking Citicoline:


"CITICOLINE with Medical Marijuana
I just got this Citicoline information (see below) from a fellow brain tumor friend. WOW it's scary that I've been on the Citicoline for about 2 years now! I'm never taking Citicoline again! Just wanted to let others know too that may be on it.
CITICOLINE
We have been suggesting citicoline, but new research has shown that caution may be advised for cancer patients. Dr. Joe D. Goldstrich has written the following :
A word of caution concerning citicoline. While citicoline has been shown to be beneficial in ameliorating the adverse effects of acute ischemic stroke,http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24739589 , it may not be the best agent for supporting cognition while using cannabis to combat cancer, especially glioblastomas and other tumors treated with bevacizumab (Avastin).
Following a stroke, citicoline helps promotes new blood vessel formation (angiogenesis) via induction and upregulation of vascular endothelial growth factor (VEGF). Induction of VEGF helps promote new blood vessels to the area of the brain undergoing healing and regeneration. This is a good thing.http://examine.com/supplements/CDP-choline/,http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/?term=citicoline+vegf
Avastin is a monoclonal antibody that blocks angiogenesis by inhibiting VEGF. New blood vessels support the growth of primary tumors and their metastases. Avastin has been used to treat metastatic colon cancer, certain lung cancers, renal cancers, ovarian cancers, and several eye diseases that are characterized by excessive vascularization (e.g. diabetic retinopathy).https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bevacizumab
Avastin and citicoline appear to have opposite effects on new blood vessel formation. While new blood vessels may be an important aspect of recovery from an acute ischemic stroke, shutting down blood flow to primary and metastatic tumors is a way of destroying these cancers.
Citicoline is also beneficial in acute ischemic stroke and retinal neurodegeneration by helping injured brain and retina cells stay alive. It has an anti-apoptotic action. THC is thought to help kill cancer cells by inducing apoptosis (programmed cell death). http://examine.com/supplements/CDP-choline/ , http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24736780
As you can see, citicoline appears to promote (at least in acute ischemic stroke) VEGA and anti-apoptosis. For these reasons it seems prudent to not use citicoline as a cognition booster and psycho activity inhibitor in conjunction THC treatments for cancer.
Another nootropic nutraceutical, Bacopa monnieri, appears to have pro-apoptotic actions http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22467255 and may thus be a better nutritional supplement for countering THC induced psycho activity"

Wishing everybody the best,
Kendall

Stephen's edit: the article above (in red) was reposted on facebook from the original source at the Aunt Zelda's website.  See the original article here: http://azcannaoil.com/a-word-of-caution-concerning-citicoline-cancer-and-cannabis/
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16 comments:

  1. Stephen W25 September 2015 at 13:42

    Thanks for posting this Kendall. I was going to mention this too but you beat me to it!

    ReplyDelete
  2. linda25 September 2015 at 16:22

    Thank you Kendall and Stephen. The only good thing to come out of a brain tumour diagnoses is the wonderful supportive people who selflessly take the time to help others. I too have a bottle of Citicoline on the shelf.

    ReplyDelete
  3. JD28 September 2015 at 14:07

    All,

    I am new to the blog, but have been in touch with Stephen for a few weeks. This seismic reversal from cannabis clinicians on Citicoline supplementation came as result of some real-life lessons with my mom-- 67 YO Dx. 7/2013, who just suffered her second GBM recurrence at the beginning of this month . We had been in the midst of large-dose THC/CBD extract protocol and were finding Citicoline to be extremely helpful in maintaining cognitive performance. When we first saw the new spots on the MRI, I got to some heavy research on Citicoline and stumbled across some papers on its use in ischemic stroke. There, I found that it can promote VEGF expression in stroke recovery. Since she was on Avastin for over a year prior to this development, I ran the scenario by Dr. Joe Goldstrich (Aunt Zeldas) and he recommended immediate cessation of Citicoline and he brought the issue to the meeting of cannabis clinicians that occurred recently. I suspect this is the manner in which the news re: Citicoline broke to the web at large. To me, this is a lesson in always doing the deep dive on the supplements we are consuming. I will never know if Citicoline exacerbated our situation, but I will certainly employ a more thorough vetting process in the future. Best of luck to everyone!

    -Jon

    ReplyDelete
  4. Stephen W28 September 2015 at 14:27

    Thanks for sharing this Jon and welcome to the blog!

    ReplyDelete
  5. AGM11 June 2016 at 07:12

    I just read this posting after trying to find something that would help my husband through the fogginess of being weaned-off steroids. Did anyone find a substitute for Citicoline?

    ReplyDelete
  6. Mara19 October 2016 at 13:07

    Thank you for posting our article on Citicoline and cancers. Please reference the source, http://azcannaoil.com/a-word-of-caution-concerning-citicoline-cancer-and-cannabis/. If there is anything we can do to assist you, please let us know. - Mara Gordon, Founder of Aunt Zelda's

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Stephen W19 October 2016 at 17:02

      Thanks for providing the link to the source for this. Someone posted this on facebook without providing the source, and was then copied and pasted here. I'll edit the post above to insert the link to the original.

      Delete
  7. Gordon10 November 2016 at 12:59

    To be clear, Citicoline should not be used in conjunction with Avastin treating cancer however, it is safe to use to offset psychoactive effects of THC, correct?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Stephen W10 November 2016 at 15:43

      As far as I know that is correct. The warning was about citicoline inducing VEGF (vascular endothelial growth factor) and blood vessel formation. That shouldn't be a problem unless one has a tumor.

      Delete
  8. SJFirinne11 November 2016 at 08:07

    Thanks for posting this. I have added a link to it on the GBM/CO FB page.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Stephen W11 November 2016 at 09:07

      The original word of caution was published here:
      http://azcannaoil.com/a-word-of-caution-concerning-citicoline-cancer-and-cannabis/

      Delete
  9. Stephen W8 January 2017 at 12:09

    Dear AGM, The post by Gina has all the characteristics of spam. It was posted by someone we've never seen before, they don't have any story of their own to tell, and spam always has a link to some commercial product. I see this kind of thing regularly and delete it. I don't mind people discussing cannabis here, but spam will be deleted. I inadvertently deleted your comment too when I deleted the spam sent by "Gina", sorry.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Stephen W8 January 2017 at 12:13

      For the record, the original comment was as follows:

      "Dear Admin,
      I scan your website, its extremely impressive, I love it.
      I have conjointly this connected web site.
      Even though modern medicine has come a long way, in today's world we are all coming to terms that natural treatments are much more beneficial for our bodies as there are no side effects.
      cannabis oil for sale [link to commercial website]

      Best Regards
      Gina Patel


      Delete
    2. Stephen W8 January 2017 at 12:28

      To further clarify, posting links to commercial products is fine, in the context of a legitimate comment. But the "spamness" of the above comment was clear to me.

      Delete
    3. Stephen W8 January 2017 at 12:36

      This is actually really interesting. The war of spam versus methods to detect or prevent spam is much like the war between cancer and the immune system. Spammers will continue to refine their methods to make it look more and more like legitimate commentary, using proper names etc. The comment by Gina though is very typical of the modern breed of spam. They haven't yet managed to evade spam "immunosurveillance".

      Delete
    4. Stephen W8 January 2017 at 17:41

      I admit I'm getting sidetracked from the topic of this blog today, but next time you (actual members of this blog) are in doubt about a comment being legitimate versus spam, click on the name of the poster to see their blogger profile. For example:

      Gina Patel
      On Blogger since January 2017
      Profile views - 4 [three of these views were mine]
      My blogs:

      buy cbd
      cbd
      vapor store near me
      where to buy cbd
      cbd store
      cannabis oil for sale

      About me [blank]
      ....

      This is clearly someone with a product to sell.

      Delete